I have never shot a single photograph using a Leica. Why? Quite frankly, the prices are way out range for what I’m willing to pay. Yesterday’s post talked about the value of a photograph in the market. After writing that post, I was cruising along and saw a post on The Luminous Landscape about the Leica S2 prices being announced.
I was floored, to say the least! The S2 body costs about $23,000 USD! Lenses go for a minimum of $4,500. So, to get started, you’re looking at about $27,500 minimum excluding any taxes and shipping. Let’s call it $30,000. Ouch!
I had never even heard of an S2 and was even more surprised when I saw it on DP Review and it looked like your everyday DSLR. Upon further reading, I see that it has a 56% (1.56 x) larger sensor(30 x 45mm) than a standard full frame DSLR (24 x 36mm). To put this into perspective, I did a little math of my own. OK, to be fair, I’m not comparing apples to apples, more like apples to potato chips, or something. Anyway, my Mamiya 645e, has a surface area (45 x 60mm) 3.125 times of a standard full frame camera. So, basically, this camera is somewhere between a 35mm and a medium format camera. So, I’m thinking, it must not be just about the sensor.
So, what is it about the Leica that it has a cult-like following? What is it about a film camera, the M7, that can still fetch $2,000+ on the used market, when all others seem to be selling for peanuts? Is it the imagined association that if I buy a Leica, I’ll be a decisive moment photographer like Henri Cartier Bresson? Is the Leica build quality so legendary that it commands top price always, regardless of what others are doing in the market? I don’t know!
One thing that I do like about all of the Leicas that I’ve seen. They simplify the camera. Even this new beast, the S2, is pure camera, no fluff, it seems. If you look at the pictures, you’ll see very few buttons, dials, and extraneous controls. Now, compare that to the Canon 1Ds Mark III!!! Talk about confusing! There’s not much to get in the way of your picture taking with the Leica! I find that appealing, but not $30,000 appealing!
If any of you purchase one, you’ll have to let me know how it feels! 
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13 Responses to “The Leica mystique!”
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I recall a presentation by an Air Force combat photographer and he made a comment about his expensive high-powered cameras to the effect “How would you like to pay that much?”
Well, as a taxpayer, I DID contribute to “paying that much.”
No, it was NOT a Leica.
Ok, so I’ve never shot one. Let’s begin there. I need to say that to frame my comments. I’ve HELD one in a photo store, I looked through the viewfinder, and focussed. But I’ve read a ton about them, because I, too, like you Paul, wanted to know what the heck the big deal was. And, what it seems to be, from reading and talking to people who use one, ergonomics. You go an read about, say, Canon DSLRs, and there seems to always be something about the way the camera works that bugs the crap out of the user. The way it feels in their hand, the way you change settings, where the dials are, etc. Regardless of whether the body is a digital rebel or the top of the line model, there’s always something.
When I wanted to get into shooting with a rangefinder, I wanted to get a used M6 TTL, because people whose opinion I trust really liked the camera quite a bit. But I couldn’t afford one, so I got a Bessa R2a, which is okay but a bit quirky. I came away from my experiences using the Bessa not quite sold on using a rangefinder, and still prefer my trusty FTb for that kind of photography.
You read about Leicas, and you read none of that. Maybe some people who don’t use them complain about the way you have to pull off the whole bottom to load film, and how ‘silly’ they find that. But what you often read is how the camera just gets out of the way when you capture images.
Also the quality of the fit and finish seems to be a big plus.
And how the lenses are just wonderful.
And how, if you buy one used, the value never drops; in fact, it might rise.
When I sit here and look at all that, I, too, don’t see why the price is so high.
However, truth be told, the next time I’m in the SF Bay area and have some money to spend, I’m gonna go to a camera store I know that that rents Leica gear, and rent an M8 and an M7 for the weekend and shoot as many images as I can with both.
Just to see whether I can ‘feel’ what makes them special.
I can see how something like this can be true, because I’ve used Macintosh computer gear for years, and swear by it, and I understand how something can ‘feel’ right. In my work I use a PC everyday, and they get the job done. No real complaints.
But for my home and for my wife I’d never buy one, and I’m happy to pay extra for that ‘quality,’ however you want to define it.
Maybe after I owned a Leica for a while I’d think about them in the same way.
I use a Leica Digilux 3, more modestly priced than both S2 and M8, though. I chosed it for the manual handling, you have the aperture ring on the lens, as well as a shutter spped dial where they used to be on SLRs. The image quality is very good too, but not as the Leica R or M series lenses.
The S2 is not on the market yet, but will compete with Hasselblad and the others in that league, hence the hefty price tag…. M8, on the contrary, has no real competition, since it’s not a DSLR even though the image sensor are about the same area. In fact, there are digital compacts too, with DSLR sized sensors. The cost less than a DSLR, for reasons. Leica M costs a lot more than the regular DSLR, but that can be justified to some extent technology-wise. You pay also for the premium brand, in this case, which should be no surprise.
I should read my comments before pressing “Submit Comment”…
That’s a awesome picture, btw. My eyes are drawn to the eye of the right bird. Stunning!
@Chris: Well, you’ll have to share your experiences after you rent your Leica! I wonder if you’ll be one of the converted!
@Ove: I guess that you are paying for premium brand (is it premium because of the quality, or because of the ‘mystique’?), and very new and unique technology. I suppose that is enough for some folks. They will, I imagine, sell a few. However, it seems odd to release such a pricey monster during a global recession.
About the photo: When I took it, I had been watching these two for a couple of minutes. They had been bobbing up and down, looking at the sky, looking at the ground, then back to the sky. Who knows what they were doing? But, it was entertaining.
Leica is a company that was almost out of business for several times now. They had a fantastic success with their M series, a rangefinder camera that did almost everything right. They always had extraordinary lenses as well. When they ventured into SLR land, they were very late. This is certainly due to the fact, that they were (and still are) a comparatively small company. Their R series SLRs were much less of a success, and Leica completely failed to connect with the major trends in photograhy since then.
Their flagship cameras had no autofocus, thus rendering them useless for many types of professional work. Sure, professional work has been done long before the advent of autofocus, but today you can’t compete in journalism or sports without it.
The other thing is digital. They tried to enter the market from three sides: by cooperation with Panasonic they produced Ove’s Digilux-3, which is a respectable camera, no doubt about it, but more expensive than comparable cameras from other brands and not distinctive enough to make for a revolution. All the other fruits of that cooperation were basically re-badged Panasonics, where you had to pay almost double for a red dot. Those compacts severly hurt Leica’s image.
The digital back for the Leica R was expensive and not much more than a prototype. In the market it was hardly recognized.
Enter the M8. For the first time Leica did it (almost) right in digital. The camera expanded on the success of the M series, the rangefinder class, where Leica still ruled surpreme, though mostly because everybody else had pulled out of the market. Not even the IR filter blunder hurt the success of this camera, though success is relative, when you look at absolute numbers. With the profits from the M8 alone, the company would not be able to live on.
Thus Leica needed to do something new. DSLRs? Forget it. As a small company you can’t compete with Nikon and Canon. Compacts? Forget it. No margins, a crowded market with the flair of a war zone. Medium format? Maybe, but when you look at it, this market is not only small, it’s extremely competitive as well, with not many players left.
They chose something in between DSLR and MF, and this time they even have autofocus. Time will tell if this was a wise decision, but probably it was the only way left. As a plus, they can claim to have invented a new class of camera. That may give them some momentum, though it would have been stronger if they had had something to back the claim when they announced the S series almost a year ago.
The problem is, that they set the prices in MF territory. At $30,000 you can get a camera and a lens from Mamiya/Phase or from Hasselblad, and in both cases you’ll get more megapixels in a well tested body.
B&H has the Hasselblad H3DII-50 SLR (50mpx, including 80mm normal lens) for $26,995. I don’t find any prices for Phase/Mamiya online, but they will be competitive. Thus: the S2 will have to be at least as good as an H3DII, and I guess this will be extremely hard for the first product in a series.
My prediction: the S series will fail, mystique or not.
Paul, it’s something that really cannot be described. Most understand it after simply holding it in their hands for a moment.
Off-line, send me your address and I’ll send you my M6 for a week or so and you hate me for it because…..
Tom
Tom, I want to get in line right after Paul, I’ve always wanted to put a couple rolls through an M6 (especially after my lukewarm reaction to he R2a). There’s a friend of mine who pooh-poohed my purchase of the R2a, saying that it wouldn’t really show me what a true Leica-like experience was.
I kind of come to the same conclusions as Andreas. But I’m rather sure that the current economic crisis won’t interfere with such a super-premium product. The recession is more affecting us average Joes – investment bankers and other potentail Leica buyers are already on the rise again. So…
No, I would guess that the S series will fail because the Leica myth alone might not make the camera interesting enough.
I certainly hope not that Andreas is right, but believes he’s right. One of the problems is probably that the investment bankers and rich collectors won’t run for the S2, I guess so anyway. The S2 is a camera for professionals. The former wouldn’t run for Hasselblads either. And that is a problem, since most professionals probably gets their share of the economic recession. Hopefully, they will be able to cram out most of the investments in technology in a new, full-frame M9. That’s the camera the wealthy folks will run after. I believe so, anyway.
@Tom: Thank you for your incredibly generous offer. I will be contacting you soon with the address as soon as things settle down at work and I can get some time to use the camera on a daily basis. I’m looking forward to it!
[...] I wrote my post about the Leica mystique some three weeks ago, that bug had jumped up again and bitten me. I was wanting to know why. Now, [...]