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	<title>Comments on: The Leica mystique!</title>
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	<link>http://www.paullesterphoto.com/wordpress/2009/08/01/the-leica-mystique/</link>
	<description>Living through the lens</description>
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		<title>By: Paul Lester Photography &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Temptations</title>
		<link>http://www.paullesterphoto.com/wordpress/2009/08/01/the-leica-mystique/comment-page-1/#comment-12850</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Lester Photography &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Temptations</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 17:57:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.paullesterphoto.com/wordpress/?p=2375#comment-12850</guid>
		<description>[...] I wrote my post about the Leica mystique some three weeks ago, that bug had jumped up again and bitten me. I was wanting to know why. Now, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I wrote my post about the Leica mystique some three weeks ago, that bug had jumped up again and bitten me. I was wanting to know why. Now, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://www.paullesterphoto.com/wordpress/2009/08/01/the-leica-mystique/comment-page-1/#comment-12638</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Aug 2009 20:06:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.paullesterphoto.com/wordpress/?p=2375#comment-12638</guid>
		<description>@Tom: Thank you for your incredibly generous offer. I will be contacting you soon with the address as soon as things settle down at work and I can get some time to use the camera on a daily basis. I&#039;m looking forward to it!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Tom: Thank you for your incredibly generous offer. I will be contacting you soon with the address as soon as things settle down at work and I can get some time to use the camera on a daily basis. I&#8217;m looking forward to it!</p>
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		<title>By: Ove</title>
		<link>http://www.paullesterphoto.com/wordpress/2009/08/01/the-leica-mystique/comment-page-1/#comment-12631</link>
		<dc:creator>Ove</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Aug 2009 08:20:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.paullesterphoto.com/wordpress/?p=2375#comment-12631</guid>
		<description>I certainly hope not that Andreas is right, but believes he&#039;s right. One of the problems is probably that the investment bankers and rich collectors won&#039;t run for the S2, I guess so anyway. The S2 is a camera for professionals. The former wouldn&#039;t run for Hasselblads either. And that is a problem, since most professionals probably gets their share of the economic recession. Hopefully, they will be able to cram out most of the investments in technology in a new, full-frame M9. That&#039;s the camera the wealthy folks will run after. I believe so, anyway.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I certainly hope not that Andreas is right, but believes he&#8217;s right. One of the problems is probably that the investment bankers and rich collectors won&#8217;t run for the S2, I guess so anyway. The S2 is a camera for professionals. The former wouldn&#8217;t run for Hasselblads either. And that is a problem, since most professionals probably gets their share of the economic recession. Hopefully, they will be able to cram out most of the investments in technology in a new, full-frame M9. That&#8217;s the camera the wealthy folks will run after. I believe so, anyway.</p>
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		<title>By: Thomas</title>
		<link>http://www.paullesterphoto.com/wordpress/2009/08/01/the-leica-mystique/comment-page-1/#comment-12630</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Aug 2009 20:36:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.paullesterphoto.com/wordpress/?p=2375#comment-12630</guid>
		<description>I kind of come to the same conclusions as Andreas. But I&#039;m rather sure that the current economic crisis won&#039;t interfere with such a super-premium product. The recession is more affecting us average Joes - investment bankers and other potentail Leica buyers are already on the rise again. So...

No, I would guess that the S series will fail because the Leica myth alone might not make the camera interesting enough.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I kind of come to the same conclusions as Andreas. But I&#8217;m rather sure that the current economic crisis won&#8217;t interfere with such a super-premium product. The recession is more affecting us average Joes &#8211; investment bankers and other potentail Leica buyers are already on the rise again. So&#8230;</p>
<p>No, I would guess that the S series will fail because the Leica myth alone might not make the camera interesting enough.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Klug</title>
		<link>http://www.paullesterphoto.com/wordpress/2009/08/01/the-leica-mystique/comment-page-1/#comment-12629</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Klug</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Aug 2009 15:02:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.paullesterphoto.com/wordpress/?p=2375#comment-12629</guid>
		<description>Tom, I want to get in line right after Paul, I&#039;ve always wanted to put a couple rolls through an M6 (especially after my lukewarm reaction to he R2a). There&#039;s a friend of mine who pooh-poohed my purchase of the R2a, saying that it wouldn&#039;t really show me what a true Leica-like experience was.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tom, I want to get in line right after Paul, I&#8217;ve always wanted to put a couple rolls through an M6 (especially after my lukewarm reaction to he R2a). There&#8217;s a friend of mine who pooh-poohed my purchase of the R2a, saying that it wouldn&#8217;t really show me what a true Leica-like experience was.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://www.paullesterphoto.com/wordpress/2009/08/01/the-leica-mystique/comment-page-1/#comment-12628</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Aug 2009 11:58:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.paullesterphoto.com/wordpress/?p=2375#comment-12628</guid>
		<description>Paul, it&#039;s something that really cannot be described. Most understand it after simply holding it in their hands for a moment.
Off-line, send me your address and I&#039;ll send you my M6 for a week or so and you hate me for it because.....

Tom</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Paul, it&#8217;s something that really cannot be described. Most understand it after simply holding it in their hands for a moment.<br />
Off-line, send me your address and I&#8217;ll send you my M6 for a week or so and you hate me for it because&#8230;..</p>
<p>Tom</p>
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		<title>By: Andreas Manessinger</title>
		<link>http://www.paullesterphoto.com/wordpress/2009/08/01/the-leica-mystique/comment-page-1/#comment-12627</link>
		<dc:creator>Andreas Manessinger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Aug 2009 11:14:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.paullesterphoto.com/wordpress/?p=2375#comment-12627</guid>
		<description>Leica is a company that was almost out of business for several times now. They had a fantastic success with their M series, a rangefinder camera that did almost everything right. They always had extraordinary lenses as well. When they ventured into SLR land, they were very late. This is certainly due to the fact, that they were (and still are) a comparatively small company. Their R series SLRs were much less of a success, and Leica completely failed to connect with the major trends in photograhy since then. 

Their flagship cameras had no autofocus, thus rendering them useless for many types of professional work. Sure, professional work has been done long before the advent of autofocus, but today you can&#039;t compete in journalism or sports without it.

The other thing is digital. They tried to enter the market from three sides: by cooperation with Panasonic they produced Ove&#039;s Digilux-3, which is a respectable camera, no doubt about it, but more expensive than comparable cameras from other brands and not distinctive enough to make for a revolution. All the other fruits of that cooperation were basically re-badged Panasonics, where you had to pay almost double for a red dot. Those compacts severly hurt Leica&#039;s image.

The digital back for the Leica R was expensive and not much more than a prototype. In the market it was hardly recognized.

Enter the M8. For the first time Leica did it (almost) right in digital. The camera expanded on the success of the M series, the rangefinder class, where Leica still ruled surpreme, though mostly because everybody else had pulled out of the market. Not even the IR filter blunder hurt the success of this camera, though success is relative, when you look at absolute numbers. With the profits from the M8 alone, the company would not be able to live on.

Thus Leica needed to do something new. DSLRs? Forget it. As a small company you can&#039;t compete with Nikon and Canon. Compacts? Forget it. No margins, a crowded market with the flair of a war zone. Medium format? Maybe, but when you look at it, this market is not only small, it&#039;s extremely competitive as well, with not many players left.

They chose something in between DSLR and MF, and this time they even have autofocus. Time will tell if this was a wise decision, but probably it was the only way left. As a plus, they can claim to have invented a new class of camera. That may give them some momentum, though it would have been stronger if they had had something to back the claim when they announced the S series almost a year ago.

The problem is, that they set the prices in MF territory. At $30,000 you can get a camera and a lens from Mamiya/Phase or from Hasselblad, and in both cases you&#039;ll get more megapixels in a well tested body. 

B&amp;H has the Hasselblad H3DII-50 SLR (50mpx, including 80mm normal lens) for $26,995. I don&#039;t find any prices for Phase/Mamiya online, but they will be competitive. Thus: the S2 will have to be at least as good as an H3DII, and I guess this will be extremely hard for the first product in a series.

My prediction: the S series will fail, mystique or not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Leica is a company that was almost out of business for several times now. They had a fantastic success with their M series, a rangefinder camera that did almost everything right. They always had extraordinary lenses as well. When they ventured into SLR land, they were very late. This is certainly due to the fact, that they were (and still are) a comparatively small company. Their R series SLRs were much less of a success, and Leica completely failed to connect with the major trends in photograhy since then. </p>
<p>Their flagship cameras had no autofocus, thus rendering them useless for many types of professional work. Sure, professional work has been done long before the advent of autofocus, but today you can&#8217;t compete in journalism or sports without it.</p>
<p>The other thing is digital. They tried to enter the market from three sides: by cooperation with Panasonic they produced Ove&#8217;s Digilux-3, which is a respectable camera, no doubt about it, but more expensive than comparable cameras from other brands and not distinctive enough to make for a revolution. All the other fruits of that cooperation were basically re-badged Panasonics, where you had to pay almost double for a red dot. Those compacts severly hurt Leica&#8217;s image.</p>
<p>The digital back for the Leica R was expensive and not much more than a prototype. In the market it was hardly recognized.</p>
<p>Enter the M8. For the first time Leica did it (almost) right in digital. The camera expanded on the success of the M series, the rangefinder class, where Leica still ruled surpreme, though mostly because everybody else had pulled out of the market. Not even the IR filter blunder hurt the success of this camera, though success is relative, when you look at absolute numbers. With the profits from the M8 alone, the company would not be able to live on.</p>
<p>Thus Leica needed to do something new. DSLRs? Forget it. As a small company you can&#8217;t compete with Nikon and Canon. Compacts? Forget it. No margins, a crowded market with the flair of a war zone. Medium format? Maybe, but when you look at it, this market is not only small, it&#8217;s extremely competitive as well, with not many players left.</p>
<p>They chose something in between DSLR and MF, and this time they even have autofocus. Time will tell if this was a wise decision, but probably it was the only way left. As a plus, they can claim to have invented a new class of camera. That may give them some momentum, though it would have been stronger if they had had something to back the claim when they announced the S series almost a year ago.</p>
<p>The problem is, that they set the prices in MF territory. At $30,000 you can get a camera and a lens from Mamiya/Phase or from Hasselblad, and in both cases you&#8217;ll get more megapixels in a well tested body. </p>
<p>B&amp;H has the Hasselblad H3DII-50 SLR (50mpx, including 80mm normal lens) for $26,995. I don&#8217;t find any prices for Phase/Mamiya online, but they will be competitive. Thus: the S2 will have to be at least as good as an H3DII, and I guess this will be extremely hard for the first product in a series.</p>
<p>My prediction: the S series will fail, mystique or not.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://www.paullesterphoto.com/wordpress/2009/08/01/the-leica-mystique/comment-page-1/#comment-12625</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Aug 2009 22:20:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.paullesterphoto.com/wordpress/?p=2375#comment-12625</guid>
		<description>@Chris: Well, you&#039;ll have to share your experiences after you rent your Leica!  I wonder if you&#039;ll be one of the converted!

@Ove: I guess that you are paying for premium brand (is it premium because of the quality, or because of the &#039;mystique&#039;?), and very new and unique technology. I suppose that is enough for some folks. They will, I imagine, sell a few.  However, it seems odd to release such a pricey monster during a global recession.  

About the photo: When I took it, I had been watching these two for a couple of minutes. They had been bobbing up and down, looking at the sky, looking at the ground, then back to the sky.  Who knows what they were doing? But, it was entertaining. :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Chris: Well, you&#8217;ll have to share your experiences after you rent your Leica!  I wonder if you&#8217;ll be one of the converted!</p>
<p>@Ove: I guess that you are paying for premium brand (is it premium because of the quality, or because of the &#8216;mystique&#8217;?), and very new and unique technology. I suppose that is enough for some folks. They will, I imagine, sell a few.  However, it seems odd to release such a pricey monster during a global recession.  </p>
<p>About the photo: When I took it, I had been watching these two for a couple of minutes. They had been bobbing up and down, looking at the sky, looking at the ground, then back to the sky.  Who knows what they were doing? But, it was entertaining. <img src='http://www.paullesterphoto.com/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Ove</title>
		<link>http://www.paullesterphoto.com/wordpress/2009/08/01/the-leica-mystique/comment-page-1/#comment-12624</link>
		<dc:creator>Ove</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Aug 2009 18:30:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.paullesterphoto.com/wordpress/?p=2375#comment-12624</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s a awesome picture, btw. My eyes are drawn to the eye of the right bird. Stunning!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s a awesome picture, btw. My eyes are drawn to the eye of the right bird. Stunning!</p>
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		<title>By: Ove</title>
		<link>http://www.paullesterphoto.com/wordpress/2009/08/01/the-leica-mystique/comment-page-1/#comment-12623</link>
		<dc:creator>Ove</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Aug 2009 18:25:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.paullesterphoto.com/wordpress/?p=2375#comment-12623</guid>
		<description>I should read my comments before pressing &quot;Submit Comment&quot;... :(</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I should read my comments before pressing &#8220;Submit Comment&#8221;&#8230; <img src='http://www.paullesterphoto.com/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif' alt=':(' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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