Still enjoying NYC
I’ve written about this before, nearly 18 months ago or so, but I feel the need to revisit it for myself from time to time because my thoughts are always changing.
These thoughts were dredged up again by Chris’s post about Jay Maisel. I’d never heard of the guy and in visiting his site and looking at his photos, it naturally brought up some questions.
First, after looking at some of his photos, I thought that I could have taken any of them myself. I’m sure that many people would look at my work and say that they could do the same thing and it’s true, they could. Continuing on down the thought path I read the myriad testimonials of his former students and was, to say the least, impressed by their impressions of his abilities as a teacher. I hope that this is not ego or hubris, but perhaps it is.
Many talked of life-changing experiences. Then, I looked at the price of the workshop, $5,000 for 5 days, all meals included. I’m not sure if it included lodging as he owns a complete bank building, so he has the room. 
The PDF said to expect 5 days full days of photography, 9 AM – 10 PM, which comes out to about 65 hours of photography, food, and lodging. Overall, it might not be a bad deal at all! Without question he is by all rights a successful and prolific photographer. Yet, I was unmoved. I cannot say why because I don’t know, but his photos just didn’t speak to me. Were I to take another workshop, I would rather it be with George DeWolfe.
Still, I go back to some of the reading that I do about discovering self and wonder how much can a teacher really teach you about being yourself, artistically. He can be the guide, I suppose, but to what extent? Certainly, I am not saying that I don’t have anything to learn, but these are thoughts that pop up from time to time. I think that I’ve mastered the technical part and am constantly on a journey to discover ‘self’ and what my own photography is about … I think that it is a moving target, sometimes, and I just shouldn’t worry about it.
Part of this goes back to thinking about an online class that I took about how to make money with your photography. I learned a few things about being critical of your own work and picking out strong pieces for your portfolio. These were valuable; however, I did start to move away from what the teacher thought when we wanted me to hype up the saturation and the WOW! factor. I guess that this was in line with making money because your stuff has to be commercially viable, I suppose and “WOW” sells.
Anyway, just more food for thought. In reading other people’s blogs, you never know how much you will start to question your own ideals, motivations, and beliefs.
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12 Responses to “Recurring thoughts”
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Interesting thoughts. The only workshop I ever did was a lesson in dark room techniques at its most basic level so I can’t really comment on the value of workshops. When workshops are expensive I always wonder how much people convince themselves that they were truly worthwhile because no one wants to believe that they may just have blown a month’s wages on something that was only average.
I’m sure I’d benefit from attending such workshops though. Books have been helpful to me but I suspect they are no replacement for a good teacher. There’s much I don’t know about the technical aspect of photography and even more I don’t know about aesthetics. The trouble is that I am not interested in learning all that or perhaps I should say I’m too lazy to bother with all that. I mean, I am not looking for a career change or anything like that. As a kid I would have had aspirations but not any more. Photography will never be anything more than a hobby, a means to “see” things a little more clearly. Also, it’s something I can share which is always enjoyable.
BTW, love the pic. Can’t quite read the woman’s expression and I like that.
Thanks, Cedric: I remember taking this photo. It was in front of one of the branches of the New York Public Library. This young lady was enjoying the sunshine and eating her lunch. Just as I put my camera to my face to take her photo, she looked down at me. I swear people have a sixth sense about this. I really believe that. Anyway, she looked down to see what I was doing, I snapped the photo, smiled, waved at her, and she waved back and continued to enjoy the sunshine and her lunch.
It’s interesting what you can get out of one of these workshops if you keep an open mind. If one goes into it thinking only about how much it is costing I’m sure that will be an obstacle to getting the most out of it. That said, when you are looking at spending money it is like anything else you want to spend it wisely, so shop carefully. There are many that are not that expensive. I also am not looking for technical hand-holding, but for anything that can help me grow as a photographer or artist. If nothing else (ideas, perspectives, etc). you can at least often get *inspired* by attending a workshop, and that’s a different form of inspiration than you get working on your own or reading blogs.
The mentor is where I’ve learned the most whether that is in photography or engineering or about life. Having someone share their experiences help me learn but nothing beats practice and experience. I attended a one day workshop that was no more than an opportunity for the photographer to share his slide show and allow vendors to market their products. I attended one of the DLWS workshops a few years ago and felt it was good for me as I was new to digital and just getting back into photography. It was also a way to meet other photographers and be in a place where I’d never visited before. Worth the money? Maybe.
If I’m to grow as a person and as a photographer I need to travel the road of life in solitude and in community. Someone else’s experiences are not necessarily the ones I need to experiences. I have a friend who takes some wonderful images but I do not enjoy his post processing. To each his own.
Thanks for the food for thought!
Good thoughts on the learning experience Paul. I suppose we all pick up little bits here and there – from some more than others. Sometimes the teaching can be quite subtle and it takes a lot of contemplation by the student.
I worked as an apprentice for two different sculptors who had two completely opposite views of art when I first began. The time spent (yrs) was worth it in ways I can’t even begin to verbalize.
To my mind if a workshop/class isn’t just a rehash of a photo manual and a real insight into the art that the teacher makes it probably is worth it. It is pretty difficult to get the why from a book or online. That give and take of a conversation and working with immediate feedback on what you are doing is what will bring the aha moment much faster than reading. Asking questions and watching the answer not just hearing it.
I your example, you talked about spending time with sculptors, as an assistant. I could certainly see great benefit in this long-term relationship. However, I’m not quite sure that is the same type of relationship that is established in week long workshop. Mind you, I have been greatly impacted by a workshop lasting a week and costing much less than the one mentioned; however, to compare apples to apples, the less expensive workshop did not include food and lodging!
I’ve been wondering recently if there was some kind of formal way to educate myself past a wall that it feels like i’ve hit. But I keep giving up on the idea of workshops and courses because by their very nature, they focus on the tangible things that can be taught, like the technical stuff. Maybe that’s just an Irish things, maybe you have a better selection on your side of the world! But the other thing is that I suppose when looking for someone you can learn something from, you really need to both appreciate their own work (whether you LIKE it or not is a different matter, mind you) and also that you respect their opinion and think that they’ll be able to see your work in the way you need them to, to be able to give you the right advice. There’s no point someone telling you what they would do in your position, because that’s not going to be authentic to you, if you follow it blindly.
I think I may have veered off on a tangent there – inspiring post
Interesting, Julie. I wonder how one separates appreciation from like? I think that I have to like the work, first, and also see something that resonates with me. I think that after I like the work, on its surface, then the appreciation comes because I project deeper meaning into the work. If I don’t get past the like stage, for me, there is no appreciation.
As for the workshops, I don’t think that it’s just an irish thing. There are plenty of workshops here that teach the technical. After all, that is tangible. You can come away believing that you’ve learned something and prove it. Americans love value for $$$. In general, we’re not too deep into perceived value. We like to be shown!
I’m at a point where I want a deeper value and it’s hard to find a teacher offering that.
The one place that I did find that was in Craig Tanner’s Next Step Workshop. It was very different and not everyone’s cup of tea. We had a few people call it New Age mumbo jumbo and were pretty dissatisfied. It focused a lot on ‘self’, quietness, reflection, and spirituality. This made some people very uncomfortable.
Interestingly, Paul, I share some of your feelings about Jay’s work. But he certainly is very highly thought of, so I listen to him and ruminate about this approach exactly because I’m trying to understand myself as a photographer better.
Certainly he is worth hearing. From my point of view, if I am going to take a workshop, there is something about that teacher’s work that I need to admire. By far, the best photo that I saw, IMHO, is the one that was displayed on the podcast entry and again in your post. Very little of his other work, that I could find, moved me in any way.
There were certainly some nuggets to take away, like his love of photography.
I’ve been thinking about taking another workshop this year and keep coming back to the point that I’m not sure what I have to learn. Not in some self-satisfied ‘I know everything’ sort of way, but just that I don’t think it is lack of learning that is holding my photography back. I just think I need to take more pictures.
So for me, spending a few thousand dollars to have a teacher tell me about my pictures isn’t I think a very wise investment. Workshops have the advantage of a shared purpose and a carved out space in life – a week – just for photos, with like minded people. That bit is valuable. Taking the time to focus on just making art is really valuable and the interaction with new ideas from other people really helps. But I don’t need 3 hours a day of photoshop education and critiques of work that I can usually already tell if it is good or bad.
Maybe the best thing you can find in a workshop leader is someone who is willing to push you to places you wouldn’t normally go, and that you trust to take you there. Craig’s Next Step class was very much like that. The workshop I did from Susan Burnstine last year was also similar. In both cases, I remember a lot of emotional rollercoasters in the sessions, for the participants.
It can be a lot safer to just learn technical things, but not so interesting – at least for me.